Big Bear Private Home Issues

City lets initiative off the ballot

2008-07-14T11:08:00.001-07:00

Press Release and several responses:

The voters of Big Bear Lake are spinning this week. They don't understand what happened. After decades of inability to solve a problem with thousands of nightly rentals in their neighborhoods, the voters used direct democracy to bypass their ineffective or unwilling city council. First, they wrote a ballot initiative. Second, they sent it to the city council for any comments or suggestions. They received no answer. Third, they contacted every local election official to make sure they properly proceeded. They were told that their official was the city clerk of Big Bear Lake. This person was the only person the voters were allowed to go to for guidance, and the official who must approve any new initiative. So they took their petition to the city clerk. The clerk required several changes. They made these changes. She required more changes, two more times. The voters made all the changes the official required. This process took so long, the petition was approved too late for the November 2006 election, but the officials accepted and approved the petition, with more than enough voter signatures, and put it on the November 2008 ballot. In 2008, the former Big Bear Lake city manager, Michael Perry, now paid by opponents of this initiative, sued the city clerk for improperly approving this petition. He claimed the initiative should have been typed on each signature page rather than stapled to it. This surprised the voters, because the election code seemed to provide to different options for attaching the actual initiative to the petition. The City Council decided not to defend itself, or its city clerk. Even though the clerk was the election official who approved the petition after three changes, the city said this was between two parties other than the city. Last week, the Judge agreed with the former city manager and ordered the city council to remove the ballot measure. I will speak to the council tonight at 6:30 PM. I will tell them that since the voters followed their instructions and had more than sufficient, approved signatures, the council should go ahead and vote to put this measure on the ballot. City Councils have the prerogative to put measures on the ballot any time they feel their voters may want to approve such measures. Most city councils would want to see what the voters actually think about a measure. Some might re-write the measure to make it more enforceable, but very few would actually refuse to give the voters what they ask for. http://www.bigbeargrizzly.net/articles/2008/07/11/news/latest_news/wprhruling.txt http://www.kbhr933.com/bigbearnews.php

Bob Pool
President - Big Bear Lodging Association, www.bigbearlodging.com, est. 1981.
Owner - Sleepy Forest Resorts, www.sleepyforest.com, est. 1980.

Oh My! That is really good and very well written. So many of us "long-timers" are distressed by what we see happening to Big Bear. I've often wonderedwhy smaller communities manage to have so much more to offer the locals. Big Bear has done a pretty good job of wooing the visitors (who pay the tax!) but it seems so rarely do we seem to count in their decisions. I know they say, "Come to the meetings and voice your opinion." I say, I don't want to sit through all their squabbles. I even stopped getting the Grizzly years ago because I was so sick of theinfighting. Sadly, people like you and I would not want to run for public office because it seems to be such a sham.Well, I sure do hope your letter does some good. Any other way we can help? Obviously the petition idea was squashed. How is that legal? …
… I must say it is easier for me to understand what you have sent me than to follow Michael Karp's convoluted thinking. Oh well, maybe I was tired when I read it. Youare short and to the point (maybe you should try preaching!) It is beyond me to see how on earth any of the shenanigans are legal and why they were enforced by the court. I guess the big guns are the ones that get their way and the "little people" can sit down and shut up. It is very sad that the "government of the people, by thepeople and for the people" has come to this. God help us all. - Kathy Kendall Big Bear Lake

Bob,

I think Doreen very eloquently stated the concerns of not only lodge owners, but of RESIDENTS, as well.

I have a few years on you - I've been in Big Bear ALL of my 52 years. And I remember a time when having a lake and great scenery was the main draw for tourists. It wasn't until Jo Tyndall-Alexander died that we became known as nothing but a ski resort. In the 40's and 50's, Big Bear was a haven for the Hollywood crowd (not just for filming), and a lot of the 'money' from the Los Angeles area. Many of the big, older, lakefront and North Estates/Gilner Point homes were built by these people. Big Bear was a 'destination resort' then, and this was without the (then) owners of the lake (Bear Valley Mutual Water Co.) doing a thing to develop recreational activities on the lake, or market it in any way. It was also before technology and communication were what it is today, yet restaurants, nightclubs, lodges, the old 'camps' and recreational venues (Pan Hot Springs, the Peter Pan Club, Stillwells, etc) thrived during this time.

Trust me, residents would also like to see a 'better class of visitor' come to the Valley, but it isn't going to happen the way Big Bear is currently marketed. The RA would do well to all sign up for e-newsletters and publications from www.steamboat.com to see how a resort very similar in size, elevation, and demographics, markets itself on a year-round basis. It is also a community dominated by "The Mountain" and has experienced a lot of changes over the years depending on who owned the ski resort and what their plans were. The locals call the seasons in Steamboat "Winter, Mud Season, Construction and Almost Winter," but you would never know it by their marketing. Their many events and a tight-knit lodging/restaurant industry makes Steamboat look like The Place To Be in the Spring, Summer and Fall. Steamboat does not have a rec/lift ticket tax, but it is my understanding they have a significantly higher TOT tax than we do.

What little marketing the Chamber and RA does is sporadic, lacks cohesiveness, and is hit and miss from an advertising 'program' standpoint. And by the way - the activities calendar on the bigbear.com site…doesn't work with some browsers, mine included. You can't click on the event at the right and open the new window that gives the events time, location and details. I have spoken to the computer guru at the Chamber about this, to no avail, and who apparently doesn't believe me. I do an Events Calendar for a local client and haven't been able to access this information for the three years that I've tried. I've had friends attempt the same task with the same results (Page Cannot Be Displayed). So how many would-be visitors are experiencing the same problem on the 'official' Big Bear site?

Best of luck to all of you with this issue, the utility rates, and the PHR issue. It is an uphill battle, to be sure. Most of the locals I know favor the rec tax theory. Unfortunately, most, like myself, will be unable to vote on it because of our residence address.

Take care,
Jo Tunnel, Big Bear City

As to Michael Karp-- give up. He and the other four clowns on council have ****ed the voters big-time. A ballot petition is a rare thing in this corporate age we live in. They had no right to kill your vote. You should start a petition to remove them all from council. And videotape every conversation with Kathy Jefferies. Michael Perry should never have been given a sample ballot in the first place. I believe that Perry acted in collusion with Kathy Jefferies and Stephen Dietsch. I know that the City never defended anything; the City just rolled over. I'm still sick to my stomach over this damn Micheal Perry lawsuit. –T Matthew Phillips

Why waste time with the City Council? They're all a bunch of crooks. The one thing I'd love to ask 'em is this: Why did Deitsch give approval to Jefferies to release the ballots to Perry? Ballot initiatives are deemed private under state law. Remember, when Jim sought to see the petitions and why he didn't get 15% signatures, Deitsch and Jefferies said "no." But when Jefferies former boss comes along, she gives up the whole ******* farm. - T Matthew Phillips

Dixie explains ordinance to the Grizzly

2006-08-30T22:31:00.000-07:00

http://www.bigbeargrizzly.net/articles/2006/08/30/op_ed_page/commentary/guestedit.txt

Well done Dixie! This letter to the Grizzly is posted on the web tonight and really says it well, especially regarding our willingness to discuss the ordinance. It is unconscionable that the city would run this ordinance through the attorney and give it back to us for petition without discussion if there is any problem enforcing it should it pass. I can only believe that somebody, like the former city manager, assured the council and attorney not to worry, it will never pass....

Bob Pool

Rental Home owner bewildered

2006-08-22T10:49:00.000-07:00

Dave and I met with the owner of the home that had the tour bus arrive with over 50 people. He had no Idea that his house was being rented to so many people. I'm sure this happens all over the valley and, if the owner approves 10 but actually 20 arrive, he really isn't getting his just income for usage. This is an old trick in the rental market, so consider this.

This owner was bewildered at the damage to his home and property until he was made aware of the situation. These absentee landlords aren't doing Big Bear any favors.

Food for thought.

Terry Hopple

Listing agents should disclose nuisance problems

2006-08-21T16:36:00.000-07:00

To Interested property owner and listing agents:

RE: Bear Loop, Big Bear City, CA 92314

This is to inform you of an ongoing problem that we are experiencing on Bear Loop with the homes being rented by Cool Cabins. On August 1, 2006 two Board Officers and myself, a resident, met with Tina McCrudden and Melisa Cabrera at their office because there was a particularly bad event the weekend of July 28th through 30th. There were two homes rented with overages of people, with too many cars. At one home the renters were causing disturbance of the peace and the Sheriff had to be called on Friday night to quiet them down. They stayed until being evicted Sunday morning by Cool Cabins.

This past weekend, August 18th through the 20th, again two homes were rented. One home had a tour bus arrive (yes and actual tour bus) and over 50 people unloaded into the house, the other home had over 20 people staying. Cool Cabins was called immediately regarding the house with the bus.

This morning a Board Officer, Dave Lorenzen, called to set up another meeting with Tina although she said she was too busy, she did explain that, "they have no control over how many people actually show up to the home and they can't be everywhere to check on cabins." She did tell Mr. Lorenzen that they will continue to send out staff to evict if there is a call from the neighbors that there are too many people. This leaves the policing of the matter in the hands of the residents.

If this continues it may turn into a legal matter, because the property owners are concerned with the value of their properties, the ongoing noise and nuisance. We have already had one recent buyer state that if they knew of this rental problem they would not have bought on Bear Loop (their property backs up to a rental). The residents on Bear Loop bought here to live on a quiet and beautiful street.

The purpose of this letter is to inform you to disclose this to any interested buyer that there is an ongoing problem of nuisance, disturbance of peace and at any given time there may be up to 50 people with their vehicles staying next to them in their new home.

Sincerely yours,
Terry Hopple
Resident
(714) 686-0015 to leave a message

Our community supports your ballot measure

2006-08-20T15:47:00.000-07:00

Our small community at North Shore East (Bear Loop off of North Shore Drive) supports your proposed ballot measure to regulate private home rentals in Big Bear Lake. Although we are not in the city and therefore cannot vote, we will work to support this initiative by influencing our friends and acquaintances that live in Big Bear Lake. We have been in a battle with one of the resort rental agencies that represents three homes in our formerly peaceful and quiet community. Residents have had to call the rental agency on numerous occasions and even had the Sheriff send a deputy to quiet down the wild parties and noxious antics. Complaints include late-night, loud music and noise, drunkenness, public nudity, threats of violence and blocking traffic by parking so many vehicles and boat trailers in our narrow street. We purchased our homes and moved here because we all liked the quiet, serene character of this neighborhood and we are trying to negotiate with the rental agency to keep better control of their rental guests. Thirty of us residents signed and delivered a petition to the agency, promising to "help" them by calling them any time of the night and by filing complaints with the Sheriff whenever these problems recur. We have also informed them that we intend to file single or class action in Small Claims Court for deprivation of rights and property if necessary. Today, when a tour bus drove up and off-loaded about 50 young people into one of the homes, we immediately called the agency and they came out to move all excess guests to another location. Calling with complaints is working, but we would rather have our peaceful community back. I'll bet you can get stories like these from residents all over the valley. Keep up the goodwork.

Dave Lorenzen, member,
North Shore East Architectural and Planning Board

Thank You Michael Perry

2006-08-20T15:37:00.000-07:00

and those who hired you. Michael Perry's letter has now caused many residents to join our campaign. Not only that, but it has spread the news that there is a proposed ballot measure better than we ever could have.

Michael Perry Dissappointment

2006-08-20T15:29:00.000-07:00

It is devestating to see the grizzly report that only Jim McLean is behind all this, and now Michael Perry has sent out a letter city-wide claiming the whole ordinance is Jim's effort to eliminate private home rental competition. Did he say who paid for the letter? It now appears our former city manager is using his position to set himself up as a consultant and it is now obvious to me why he ignored my many emails asking when he would follow up on the fair treatment issue the council asked him to look into. I thought he was a friend. He knows how many of us there are and is willfully misrepresenting this entire issue. Its a great dissappointment. Please ask your friends (and not so friendly aquantances) to examine the ordinance and the issues and call Perry and the Real Estaters on their claims. The Mcleans didn't write this ordinance. I have updated the website to respond to his letter. It now includes a letter from Dixie Allison responding to Michael Perry, who has represented himself as a city expert on these issues. Fact is, he does know the facts:

1. The proposed ordinance does NOT eliminate private home rentals. Michael Perry knows this if he read it.
2. Jim Mclean is not alone in his feelings nor did he write this ordinance. Michael Perry has talked to dozens of people, (I'm one) over the last two years as city manager, who demanded something be done to improve the private home rental problems and unfairness. He has led many to believe he cared and was listening while in fact, he has, more than anyone, stalled ANY action to improve our situation. Who is paying him to write this letter and when did they begin working together?
3. This ordinance, if petitioned to the next ballot, would give YOU, the voters, the opportunity to judge its merits by voting for or against it. Michael Perry and those who hired him know you will likely support it if it gets on the ballot.
4. As city manager, Michael Perry hosted a workshop at the PAC in March 2004 where hundreds of disappointed home owners and lodge owners showed up to speak, along with many Private Home Rental owners and employees. Mr. Perry was unable to stop the PHR supporters from cheering their friends and booing the rest of us. During the break, many of the homeowners went home, intimidated, and never spoke again.
5. In June of 2004, I spoke (to Mr. Perry and the City Council) for a large group of unhappy homeowners and lodge owners. I was very polite and asked simply for two things: First, let the citizens vote on how they want private home rentals handled, (this request was completely ignored). Second, Treat the lodge owners the same as you treat the private home renters, regarding inspections and safety. This request was followed by a vote of the council to research the fair treatment of both parties. I emailed Michael Perry repeatedly, for the following two years and finally, after confronting him while lunching with council members, received an answer: "Nothing has been done" His recent letter explains why! If this is what we paid our city manager to do, we got ripped off.

Bob

Put me on record

2006-08-18T21:55:00.000-07:00

Bob--Put me on record as being opposed to the County ordinance, and FOR the proposed BB initiative. The County "self-inspection" ordinance makes about as much sense as letting Barry Bonds or Floyd Landis administer their own drug tests.
Eric Goettsch
Mallard Bay Resort

Vacation Rentals were here before lodges?

2006-08-18T14:30:00.000-07:00

The following letter was sent to the Grizzly on July 13:
Dear Ms. Bower:
In your article on July 12, Wheeler incorrectly contends that vacation rentals were built here long before the Lodges. Oak Knoll Lodge was built in the 1920s and was the first Lodge that travelers would encounter as they drove into the valley from Mill Creek Road, the main road into Big Bear (then known as Pine Knot) at the time. I wonder if Wheeler or Reid know of ANY vacation rentals built before 1920? You can read up on ACTUAL Big Bear Lake history here:
http://www.big-bear-lake.com/History.htm
As for Perry's arguments, of course homeowners have the right to rent their properties -- they simply should have to follow the law. And, even if "[s]tatistics show that vacation rental stays account for about 70 nights a year, meaning for almost 300 nights the house is empty or the owner is using it" they are not complying with the laws that every Lodge has to comply with for those 70 nights. Regardless of the economic impact of the proposed ballot measure, we wouldn't let brothels operate illegally just because they inflate home prices or bring in a couple more million annually on things such as (legal) recreation, dining, shopping and other discretionary items.
Lastly, I bet the Sheriff's Department can tell you whether every vacation rental is such a "great neighbor”. Maybe you should have interviewed some deputies responding to late-night, drunken parties in otherwise quiet neighborhoods, or an actual Lodge owner, for the other side of this story.
Sincerely,
Charles Lawrence

List me as a supporter

2006-08-18T13:41:00.000-07:00

Please feel free to list me as a supporter. We’re all in this together; we just need to be treated equally.

John Levy
Black Bear Cottages

Include my name

2006-08-18T07:30:00.000-07:00

Hi Bob,
please do include my name as a PHR Inititive Supporter. Big Bear Valley needs a PHR ordinance that protects visitors and residents equally. It's a matter of Qualitative experience during visitations to Big BearValley and a Quality of life for residents.

Sam Baca
Mountain Lodging Unlimited
www.BigBearLodgingOnline.com
909-633-0178

thanks/sam

Its a health and safety issue for tourists.

2006-08-11T17:26:00.000-07:00

Hey guys, Anything I can do...you guys have a good cause. Stick with it and don't back down!
It's not a lodging vs vacation homes issue. Its a health and safety issue for tourists. Make em' walk the gang plank on that one. Make sure there's alligators down below. Let's get the word out...there's more tourists than there are lodge owners and big guys. Give the tourists a say on whether they would stay at a place that is governed by higher standards, or a home where there is no accountability. Like, "did they or did they not wash the tub after the last guests." Market yourselves as the clean, safe environments that have standards set and accountability measures in place. Whereas, right now...the vacation rental home owners have none. Yek! I can see it now...vacation rentals up for sale. Homeowners don't want to meet health and safety measures that will guarantee a safe and healthy environment for their guests. Rumors of health and safety non-compliance among the vacation rental properties. hmmm. Have a good week.
Belle

Big Bear Private Home Issues

2006-08-08T19:22:00.000-07:00

Big Bear Private Home Issues

Unethical Business Practices in Big Bear- Health and Safety of BBL guests and tourists not important for Vacation Rental Home owners...what??? Why not? Lodge owners care enough to be accountable, why don't BBL's Vacation Rental Home owners care?
Hi guys, I think that this is a great opportunity to teach the community of Big Bear Lake to play fair.This should have been learned back in elementary school...but then again...how long has it been since we all attended elementary school, and now we've learned a new character...called me, myself, and I, instead of the other person.Personally, I spent a year in the lodging business up there and came in close contact with many of you lodge owners, both great and small.I saw the imaturity and non-business and unfair practices displayed by the larger of the two lodging associations.I didn't see 'community' being played out in the larger of the two. It was more like 'cut throat', the guy with the biggest wallet empowers himself/herself and takes advantage of the small guy.Ugly imposition on a community that wants to build itself. Grandma always used to say, "you get respect, by giving respect." "Not by imposing your powers on people...they'll hate you for it and you'll tear down a community/family."Grandma was right. Big Bear Lake is ugly when it comes to the politics and the unfairnesses Big Guy imposes on the little guy. The little guy is the one who built Big Bear and brought it into being. The small business man and his community worked hard to build Big Bear into the community it was before Big Guy moved in with the greed to take over.Asking vacation home owners to be licensed, to be inspected, to live up to the high standards you impose upon the lodges, makes guests to Big Bear know that they are protected and that their visits will be a positive experience and not a negative one. Vacation Home rental owners are business people. The State of California does not have different strokes for different folks when the State sets business standards, and neither should the politicians of Big Bear Lake.Vacation Home Rentals are NO different than the lodges and cabins owned by lodge owners. They should be inspected, they should pay TOT (because the Cities in Big Bear will benefit). I've moved off the mountain, however Big Bear Lake is my get-away. Personally, I would never stay at a vacation home that is not inspected by the City/County. I want a guarantee that my stay is going to be wonderful...so I go to the lodges who do have high standards set and have to be accountable to others to guarantee that my stay as a guest to Big Bear meets the codes as set by the city, county and state. Not making vacation home rental owners meet the same standards you set for lodges, is both unethical it makes the City liable for safety and health issues.I don't think the City really wants to become a sitting duck for liability suits from the tourists/guests that come. Bad words spread faster and further than good words. You can invest billions into an economy...however, the end result is are your guests happy and do they know that when they come to Big Bear...are they going to have a happy, HEALTHY, and safe stay there?Does the City of Big Bear really back it's tourists? Or it's Big Boys? Who really brings the bucks to Big Bear, and who spends them elsewhere. Even the doctors at the hospital have it's patients sending bill payments to Ohio. Hmmm. The little guys are really the ones who keep the economy going and growing in Big Bear. By the way, I also received feedback from some guests who booked with Big Guy resort...they were unhappy that Big Guy is asking for Social Security numbers from its guests. My question is...why? It is illegal practice to ask anyone for social security numbers if you are not bank or government organizations. Does Big Guy really know honest business practices. If not, there are several online University Institutions begging for students. I just graduated from one in 2003. I would suggest that the politicians in Big Bear enroll in a good Business Management/Administration course. The new business practices codes of ethics would be beneficial to answering the questions to the controversies Big Bear Community is having.There is only one vote...and that is...ALL VACATION RENTAL OWNERS Will be accountable to uphold the standards, policies and practices of those set for the rental industry...those that all lodge owners are subject to. Period.Thanks for giving opportunity for us to express ourselves here.Belle Brown

Welcome, please participate

2006-08-07T11:56:00.000-07:00

Welcome to the Big Bear Private Homes Web Log (blog). We believe a better private Home Rental Ordinance is needed in Big Bear. Please read our website at www.bigbearprivatehomes.com and then contribute your thoughts and ideas by email to phlog@bigbeararea.com or click on comments to comment on individual posts. Please keep your comments polite, without name-calling or needless explitives and I'll post them for all to read.